- Go ahead and share any thoughts about anything in the first 95 pages of Playground, or about author Richard Powers or any of his previous books (I especially like Bewilderment, Overstory, Echo Maker, Galatea 2.2, Generosity: An Enhancement), or on the general subjects of the environment and/or AI.
- Re: the dedication (& 23f.): did anyone ever give you a book (or anything else) at around age 10 that had a significant impact on your later life? Why do you think Clearly It Is Ocean so impacted Todd?
- Any thoughts on the Ta'aroa creation story, and the role of artist in bringing gods (and other creative products) into being? Do such stories convey a deeper-than-literal truth? What might that be, in this instance?
- Why do you think Ina sobbed through the last act of The Tempest? 4 Has any work of art (literature or otherwise) ever moved you to tears? Why?
- Is it possible to raise a family "away from the growing sadness of the real world"? 5
- COMMENT? Todd Keane, "the first person to reach the future" [as the novel will reveal] is now "retreating into the past"... 9 And what does he mean, that when he was young he could "breathe under water"? 13
- COMMENT? What do you make of the multiple references to "hallucinations"? (16, 19, passim)
- Rafi frequently dreams of "the first day of first grade"... 20 Do you have any recurrent dreams from childhood? Are they pleasant, disturbing, instructive, ...?
- Todd's former company's breakthrough, he says, will hasten humanity's "fourth and perhaps final act." 26 What do you think were the first three acts? What do you imagine might be the fourth?
- Had you ever heard of Makatea? Any thoughts about its history?
- COMMENT? "Makatea helped Homo sapiens subdue the Earth. But in the process, the island was consumed." 31
- "People and their emotions puzzled me." 33 "I've always trusted machines more than I trust people." 46 Do you think this attitude is common among many tech pioneers and computing entrepreneurs? Is it concerning that their creations have come to preoccupy so many people? 33 Were we READY> for the digital/Internet revolution? Are we READY> for the changes AI may bring to society, emotional health, et al?
- COMMENT?: "Clearly, they, too [the early PC], were ocean." 34
- Doing handyman repairs and daydreaming about playing for the World Cup "was all the happiness the Mayor] needed." 36 Should that (or its equivalent, for each of us) be enough?
- COMMENT?: "I thought the Americans were just... shitting around. You know how they do." 39
- Are westerners ("Popa'a") generally not "healthy about sex"? 43
- Has the "planet-sized megaphone" of social media really helped to level the playing field between large and small nations? 45
- Todd says the incidence of cognitive impairment among Americans is too high to ask Why me? 46 Is Why not me? a better rhetorical question?
- "I needed to start recording everything. Telling someone." 48 If you received a terminal diagnosis, would you react as Todd does? What would you "record," who would you tell what? What would you do with your remaining time (presuming you felt like doing anything, or retained sufficient cognitive function to do so)? Would you work on a "bucket list"? Would you do anything different? Should we (can we?) try to live each day as though it might be our last?
- "The whole game of human life is changing." 50 Does it ever, though? Aren't there some constants in human experience, no matter how much society and technology and society change?
- COMMENT? Evie (like Todd) "had never felt at home up there... with its noise and politics" 52 Does it seem like many of those "land dwellers" and progress-seekers who do feel at home here are suffering "derangement"? 53. 55
- Can humanity, or at least individual humans, ever break back into "the magic circle of children's play"? 57 Do you? How? For how long?
- "If you want to make something smarter, teach it to play." 59 Agree?
- Have you ever played with a member of a non-domesticated species? 60
- Todd "see(s) things that aren't there." Is his LBD analogous to AI hallucination? 61
- "'The water belongs to nobody. It's no-man's land...endless, open, and free" 68 Is that really so?
- "They made [Rafi] skip a grade." 69 Good idea, in his case or ever?
- "Reading made him untouchable on a raft in the middle of an ocean of bright words." 71 Do kids still have that experience of reading, in the Internet/social media/gaming age?
- Watching Cubs games with his grandfather "taught the pleasure of constantly destroyed hope." 77 Is pleasure the right word?
- What do you think of Rafi's general essay response? 82
- Why don't more of us choose to "live in the truth"? 84
- COMMENT? Saint Ignatius and Aristotle on molding children... What is the significance of "Give" (as opposed to Show)? 86
- Is chess beautiful? Is its allure more about logic or drama? 91
- Is Evie right about the secret of life? 95
Should We Go Extinct?: A Philosophical Dilemma for Our Unbearable Times by Todd May
A surprisingly lighthearted approach to a heavy subject, though not so surprising coming from the philosophical advisor to The Good Place. Most lives are indeed worth living, we may agree, while still also wondering whether the total species impact of humanity hasn't been a net loss for life on this planet.
But wouldn't our self-inflicted extinction be an awful abrogation of responsibility? Don't we owe it to the future of life to stick around and try to clean up the mess we've made?
Well, at least 'til after the WBC final?
"…the idea that humans are destroying life on the planet for many of our fellow creatures or that we could get into a war that would make life unlivable for many others—that's not so crazy. Instead, it's fact. And how about the thought that given what we're doing, perhaps we should seriously consider whether we should go extinct, whether the world would be better off without us? Maybe that's not so crazy either.
The not-craziness of it is why I've been thinking about this for some time now. In fact, several years ago I penned some very preliminary thoughts on it for the (now extinct) New York Times blog The Stone, raising the possibility that human extinction might be at once a tragedy and a good thing. It would be a tragedy for two reasons. First, in addition to the suffering that would precede it, it would involve the loss of much of what humans value and only humans can create: art, science, and so on. Second—here is the classically tragic part—that loss would be caused by humans. We, like King Lear or Oedipus, would be the cause of our demise. But our extinction would not be all bad news. The end of human existence would also be the end of the massive suffering humans cause, largely to non-human animals. (Granted, we also cause a good bit of suffering to one another—and not just through social media.
But, as I'll argue in the next chapter, for most of us our lives, in the end, are well worth living.) It's not that animals don't cause suffering to one another. Of course they do.
But no non-human animal can cause the extraordinary level of suffering that humans do, through factory farming and the consumption that goes along with it, deforestation, plastic disposal into the oceans, scientific experimentation, and the like…"
— Should We Go Extinct?: A Philosophical Dilemma for Our Unbearable Times by Todd May
https://a.co/0jeNMx01
3. Any thoughts on the Ta'aroa creation story, and the role of artist in bringing gods (and other creative products) into being? Do such stories convey a deeper-than-literal truth? What might that be, in this instance?
ReplyDeleteUpon reading the Ta'aroa creation story, it is reminiscent of the book of Genesis in the bible ("In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ..."). The description of Ta'aroa as an artist and the introduction of the mediums eggshell, tears, and bone. The additional artists involvement does have a "big bang" etymology.
After some further research on Ta'aroa (to gain more insight), I read that this figure is the supreme creator deity in Polynesian mythology, particularly central to the belief systems of the Society Islands (Tahiti). He is credited with creating the universe, the gods, and mankind, often described as having existed alone in a shell before breaking it to form the sky and earth.
I think the "egg" is visually interesting. I feel like it represents the irreplaceable factor that life offers as well as intentionality, especially when describing the gradual creation of civilization.
I agree this resembled the Bible, with a bit more prequel and emotion. The way it discussed the loneliness he felt and how he cried, which in turn contorted into the creation of earth.
DeleteThe "cosmic egg" mythology takes on special significance in the Easter season, doesn't it?
DeleteThe cosmic egg is a widespread creation myth motif where the universe hatches from a primordial egg, often floating on chaos or laid by a divine bird. It represents the universe's embryonic potential, splitting to create heaven and earth, with key versions found in Hindu, Chinese, Egyptian, Finnish, and Greek traditions.
Medium
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Key Cosmic Egg Myths:
Chinese (Pangu): Formless chaos resembled a chicken egg. After 18,000 years, it hatched; the light/clear parts (Yang) rose to become Heaven, and the heavy/turbid parts (Yin) sank to become Earth.
Hindu (Hiranyagarbha): Often called the "Golden Womb," this egg emerged from the primordial ocean. The creator god Brahma (or Prajapati) emerged from it, with the shell splitting to form the earth and sky.
Finnish (Kalevala): A duck lays eggs on the knee of the air goddess Ilmatar. When they break, the fragments create the earth, sky, sun, and moon.
Greek (Orphic): Chronos (Time) produces a silver egg in Aether, from which Phanes (light/creator) hatches, creating the cosmos.
Egyptian (Hermopolitan): The creator god (sometimes Thoth) is hatched from a cosmic egg laid by a primeval goose ("the Great Cackler") upon a mound rising from the waters.
Wikipedia
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Common Symbolism:
Emergence of Life: The egg symbolizes the unification of all elements before they are separated.
Breaking the Shell: Frequently denotes breaking the "shell" of ignorance or bringing order out of chaos.
Creation Structure: The upper part of the shell often becomes the sky, and the lower part becomes the earth.
5. I do not think it is possible to raise a family away from the sadness of the world because sadness will find you. I remember during Trump 1.0 I considered moving to Africa to avoid the confident racists who were going out to express their racist ideas and stances, especially around my children. I talked to a realtor and even wanted to take a trip to Ghana to learn more about where I would be relocating my family. We ended up staying due to the idea of leaving our parents, siblings, and cousins in the states to "burn." Then Trump strikes Nigeria, which is only 300 miles from Ghana. Also, if you do not discuss the problems of the world, what would be different from those who turn their heads to others' pain? For example, never discussing the sadness of immigration or Renee Good while staying in a bubble of contentment. That's not staying away from sadness. That's pushing it deep down until it impacts you.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your thoughts here, Markeem. I really like how you stated " if you do not discuss the problems of the world, what would be different from those who turn their heads to others' pain?" Distancing oneself from sadness and the pain of others leads to a lack of empathy towards the world and divides people more than they are already. The "bubble of contentment" is a major problem I've seen on the rise as people don't want to engage with our current problems or want to outright ignore it. Only those with certain privileges have the right to turn away from what's happening since it doesn't directly affect them and it leads back to a lack of empathy for other people.
DeleteNo safe place to hide. Trump now says he's gonna "take Cuba." Who's to stop him? But I have to believe he won't have the last word on the American experiment. We read the Declaration of Independence on the Honors lawn this afternoon, reminding ouselves that tyrants don't get the last word when people demand their freedom. Rebecca Solnit's new book is giving me hope, too...
Delete1. Playground is nothing like Be Mine by Richard Ford. Its combination of jumping back and forth is a style I am not used to. Even when Frank would jump between the future, present, and past, it was similar but still different. Playground so far has required a few rereads. However, style does not take away from the body of work. Rather, you have to read and listen with intention for comprehension purposes.
ReplyDeleteThis was posted my Markeem.
DeleteIt is a bit challenging, but once you zone in on the three main characters I think it becomes more straightforward. I do think it parallels Be Mine in some ways: it's about the prospective death of an island and maybe a planet, as Be Mine was about the prospective death of an individual... and how (whether?) the survivors will go on.
Delete1. This reminded me of Genesis in the Bible, with an intriguing prequel. The way it discusses how the earth was created draws you in. Even how Ta'aroa created himself reminded me of how God also created himself in the flesh as Jesus. Like many religions, they kind of resemble one another with different details of how general ideas, such as creation or salvation, were achieved, respectively.
ReplyDeleteThe evolutionary creation story is different, but still offers a frame of meaning. See "Everybody's Story" by Loyal Rue...
Delete2. My mother gave me the first Harry Potter book when I was 10. This was just before the movie released and she thought it would be something I would be interested in. I’d always been a big reader before that, always in the school or public library, but getting into the Harry Potter series significantly impacted me and my life. It opened new worlds for me, both in the fictional sense and in real life. It brought me into a larger community that lasted years and expanded to other similar fandoms; inspired me to write and create more; and understand myself a bit better. Of course, my feelings on the series and its author have changed a lot in recent years and I no longer hold the same reverence for it as I did. But that doesn’t change its impact on me and my current life.
ReplyDeleteI think for Todd, Clearly It Is Ocean introduced him to a new world as well and inspired him from that formative age. A child’s world is often limiting in scope and books provide ways to expand that for them, allowing them to explore new possibilities.
I agree with you and also relate to being impacted by the Harry Potter books. It was my first novel as a child, followed by The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I felt my imagination laid dormant prior to those books. There, but not lit.
DeleteThe first books to have a big impact on me: Bob Gibson's (the Cardinals pitcher) "From Ghetto to Glory" and then "The Autobiography of Malcolm X"... both opened new unfamiliar worlds to me. I worry that younger people's explorations of worlds, mediated by the Internet and social media, may be less rich and transformative. Reading, as the saying has it, IS fundamental.
Delete30. I really resonate with Rafi’s essay, and it made me think of the saying “you can’t have light without the dark.” Sadness is an important emotion to feel and think about throughout life. No one wants to be sad, but it’s inevitable and unavoidable. As he said in his essay, sadness is a key emotion. You shouldn’t ruminate in it too much, but it is how we learn, appreciate and love the good in life. Being able to feel sadness for someone else, outside of your own life and time, is also just as important. It is what can spur us to make the world better, whether it is for other people, animals or the environment.
ReplyDelete3. Any thoughts on the Ta'aroa creation story, and the role of artist in bringing gods (and other creative products) into being? Do such stories convey a deeper-than-literal truth? What might that be, in this instance?
ReplyDeleteI noticed a few parallels between the Ta’aroa creation story and the creation story of the Dogon people of West Africa. Both mythologies begin with a cosmic egg from which creation is birthed. In the Dogon myth, the egg breaks and spreads its contents all over the universe, giving existence to matter, space, and time. It’s interesting how certain themes like the cosmic egg appear in the mythologies of unrelated cultures. If there’s a deeper-than-literal-truth to the Ta’aroa creation story, I think it is that people are supposed to work together and not always alone. Harmony is achieved when we all work toward a common, positive goal. Even though he probably could have done it alone, Ta’aroa called on the artists to assist him with creation because he valued their input and unique perspectives. I like the idea of multiple entities coming together to create something beautiful and profound.
5. Is it possible to raise a family "away from the growing sadness of the real world"? 5
I imagine it’s possible if someone has the wealth and resources that Todd’s family has, but it’s definitely not a good idea. Sheltering children from the world’s suffering can cause bigger problems for them in the future. If children aren’t exposed to the real world, they won’t know how to function in it. Shielding children from the world’s sadness and suffering is a sure-fire way to set them up for failure. How will they know how to counteract sadness and alleviate suffering (of self or others) if they’re not made aware of them? Before Siddhartha Gautama became the Buddha, he was a prince who lived the first 26 years of his life in a palace, completely unaware of human suffering. Once he left the palace and became aware of suffering, he was so moved that he decided to find a way to end suffering. Thus, he reached enlightenment and became the Buddha - which wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t become aware of other people’s suffering.
10. Had you ever heard of Makatea? Any thoughts about its history?
I had heard of it, from a movie called Six Days Seven Nights that is set in Makatea. I always thought Makatea was a location the producers made up for the film and didn’t know it was a real place until reading this passage. Learning the history of Makatea made me sad. The indigenous people of the island were doing just fine until colonizers showed up with “progress.” It might be nice to have technology but not at the expense of the environment. I’m sad for the land and for the people who had to live through the destruction of their home by colonizers.